Saturday, August 8, 2009

To grip or not to grip… that is the question

There has been a lot of discussion since Mackenzie J handed down his judgment on interim orders. There seems to be one dominant question: "is my [fill in your favourite rifle here] still legal for my 'A' licence endorsement.

There is no simple – yes / no answer to that until the High Court has disposed of the judicial review proceeding. It is "not known." Any advice police give you is merely an opinion and of no legal standing. The final decision is yours and yours alone. Here is something that may influence your decision.

You are not liable to conviction by a Court for an offence when you have made a mistake of fact. This is distinct from a mistake of law. For example: A man was charged with a traffic offence committed in a rural paddock. The paddock was used for the relevant day as a car park for a field day event. The man knew the paddock was a car-park for the event; he mistakenly believed that the paddock was not subject to the traffic laws that generally applied to roads. In fact the law applies to any area like that, temporary or not, where the public has access. He made a mistake in law. However if the man had not know that the area was annexed as a car park for the day of the event, that would have been a mistake of fact and he would not have been convicted. When you accidentally break the law based on a reasonable mistake of fact then you cannot be convicted.

If you know that your [fill in your favourite rifle here] has a military pattern free standing pistol grip but you believe that the relevant law does not apply from Friday at 6pm until Sunday at 6pm that would be a mistake of law and your busted. However if you genuinely believe that your thumbhole stock is not a military pattern free standing pistol grip then that is a mistake of fact and even if Police tried to prosecute you, a court would acquit. Oh I hear you say, "but the Police would say that they warned me." That maybe so but Mackenzie J says that the police opinion has no legal standing, and the Police have told you for sixteen years that your rifle is 'A' category. If you can look at your [fill in your favourite rifle here], hand on heart, and say, as a reasonable man, it doesn't have a military pattern free standing pistol grip, then you're safe.



Anonymous said...

Hi Richard, Youve probably seen this, but its the first Ive actually seen this on an 'official' channel.

I also note they seem to have removed the SL-8 from their approved arms list...

I am still confused as to their counter-intuitive re-definition of 'military pattern free-standing pistol grip'

If a grip is not free-standing, and is designed to 'sporterise' a firearm, I fail to see how it could be 'military-style free-standing'-as is the word of the law.

I honestly cant understand why the police are making this an issue.
Unless theyre testing to see our resolve in precident for further restrictions...

Anonymous said...

Previous poster;

The reason they are doing it is because they want to remove ALL firearms from civilian ownership (Not just MSSA's, bolt actions, pistols, shotguns etc - ALL firearms).

They are following the same kind of U.N./Globalist mandate that our government was when they tried to invoke things like the "Fart tax" on farmers.
You'll notice our ex-snaggletooth PM fled to a UN job as soon as her tenture in NZ was up (no I'm not saying our current one is any better).

In context with the firearms agenda, the UN/Globalists want ALL firearms removed from civilian ownership as they have done fairly successfully in the U.K.

This move is nothing to do with whether the NZ police think you should shoot deer with a thumbhole stock or our shooting/ hunting/ recreational rights being infringed upon and alot more to do with a One World Government agenda and the fear of an armed populace that are proficient with firearms and potentially able to put up a considerable resistance to enforced tyranny.

Please, before you start screaming at me too put the tinfoil hat back on, the police firearms dogma actually makes refence to U.N. regulation and its need to comply.

Take a good look at what is going on in the States of all places and the move by their current UN-driven banker-backed gov' to undermine and abolish their 2nd ammendment concurrent with the rampant looting and pilaging of their countrys coffers and you will realise I am not putting you wrong.

Richards a bloody hero for championing this cause and if any of you think he is "merely" opposing JUST the banal over-reaching NZ police beauracracy you are far, far wide of the reality.

Anonymous said...

Quick! Put your tin foil hat back on! NOW!

What you propose doesn't give any answers. It mearly raises more question.

Such as Who and Why?

Please keep in mind that corrolation does not mean causation.

Evidence that the UN is behind arms control laws mean that the UN is behind gun control laws. It does not equate to evidence that there is a world wide conspiracy for One World Government.

Richard said...

The more I deal with this current judicial review, the more I become convinced that Police have purposley set themselves up to fail. Police are dead keen for the review... even arguing that it can proceed in spite of the judge questioning that. I think I know what their plan is but I'm waiting for something and will able to expenad on that in a couple of days time... stay tuned !

Anonymous said...

you've done well for us mate !

I just wish that you would've started the NSA earlier.

Thanks !

Anonymous said...

The Police got the Appeal Court to class automatic Airsoft guns as C Cat restricted weapons. Yes, thats right, non-leathal airguns that isn't even a "firearm" can be a "restricted C Cat weapon.

They did this so they could charge a guy with firearms charges I believe.

NZ Airsoft got really messed up at this point. Joe Green even refused Airsoft guns converted to semi into the country, for the reason it must be "factory semi" to be considered semi, meaning we wern't allowed to convert guns to semi. ASNZ only recently got Joe Green to change his position when we were mobilizing to take him to court.

Still no auto's LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS. But Joe is now allowing them to be imported if they are converted to semi only.

From what Richard is saying, I'm guessing the Police is gearing up to give us a smack down via the Appeal Court. Which I believe there is no challenging after that.

Anonymous said...

Well, it was on the news today, and with a reasonably positive slant, saying it was pointless and based on how thumbhole stocks somehow look 'meaner' than hunting stocks.

Hopefully the publicity will help our cause, but i think most people are taking this as word of law, rather than the police just pushing us around..

Craig said...

Here is a link to the TV3 story

Anonymous said...

This quoted in the herald today

"Regulations in this regard have already changed (sports guns with the function of a free-standing pistol grip have been reclassified as MSSAs) and a $60,000 advertising campaign has begun.

But it is unlikely the requirements can be enforced without a law change."